Dossier spécial | Accusations de complotisme. Une mode ?

8 Comments

1. Bonjour, merci pour cet article que j’aimerais bien lire mais j’ai beaucoup de difficulté avec la façon dont il est affiché. Y aurait-il moyen de l’avoir en PDF à télécharger ?
   Toute belle journée et gratitude infinie pour tout le travail que vous faites !
   Eva

   1. Le PDF est téléchargeable via la flèche à gauche en haut de l’affichage.
      Il est nouvellement aussi en lien sous le lecteur.
      Bonne lecture, bon vent et à bientôt !
      Cordialement
      Michel Herren

2. Merci pour votre publication.
   Excellent travail si peu abordé.
   En page 15 vous dites de « ne jamais se contenter d’une seule vision et pensée ».
   Dans notre paysage médiatique suisse comment distinguer une autre vison quand pratiquement tous les médias ont une pensée unique et politiquement correcte ?
   Il faut donc bien se rendre sur les médias alternatifs (sites de ré-informations) pour avoir une autre vision et pensée.
   Par manque de pluralité médiatique, je trouve que chez nous le choix de la vision et de la pensée n’est pas bien vaste.

3. Le complotisme c’est chercher des explications simples voire simplistes à des problème complexes par incapacité d’appréhender les phénomène concernés dans leur visions systémique.

   Donc traiter Jean Dominique Michel, Didier Raoult, Christian Perronne ou Jean François Toussaint de complotistes est une aberration. Puisqu’ils remettent chacun à sa manière le phénomène de la pandémie dans sa dimension systémique.
   Ceux qui nous gouvernent sont dénués de culture scientifique, ne possèdent aucune imagination, ni aucune créativité, donc ne peuvent donner de réponse innovante à une crise.

4. It is 10 days passed since the last post. I believe people have to know more about the falsifications by mathematicians and media of the second wave!

   1. Hello Alexey,
      I hope you are okay.
      For your and our interest :

      https://theconversation.com/can-we-please-stop-talking-about-a-second-wave-of-covid-19-140140

      Opinion :
      We still don’t know everything about the pathogenesis of this Coronavirus (e.g. Is it a seasonal virus?) and as such, it is likely that mathematicians and medias can only attempt to depict the reality from a non-specialist point of view and miss what is relevant to work with this virus. It seems more coherent to trust an infectiologue and virologue who works at the bedside with patients if we want to deal with a pandemia, rather than mathematicians and journalists . This goes without direct conviction toward mathematicians (journalists are special cases).

      Best regards.

5. Hello, Paul.

   You are wrong from the beginning to the end. First of all, you are not able to list people who really work on understanding of the virus and at the same time deny the already developing second wave (see, e.g., USA). Currently, only individuals with fake profiles do this. You try to bring the subject to the gray zone ‘we do not know anything’, e.g., you claim we do not know if it seasonal virus. Really? How can you doubt that the virus present during 5 months in both hemispheres is not seasonal???? It was equally present during winter, spring and summer in the North Hemisphere as well as during spring and winter in South Hemisphere. Paul, you need to invent a new season to reveal the conspiracy behind!!!! Probably, mathematicians and journalists hid the 5th season somewhere! And when you look what is currently going on in USA, could not you see the second wave? You probably turned your laptop upside down, just turn it back. Or have you created an alternative definition of the second wave? It is probably a surprise for you but mathematicians only perform analysis of the medical or other relevant data gathered by medical personnel or biologists. The analysis is examined by epidemiologists because epidemiologists have the last word in the case of pandemic. And there is a quite clear conclusion on it. So, what is said in this post from the beginning to the end is simply based on picking up a few fake opinions and completely lack the experimental ground but people prefer to believe in conspiracies. It is said 😉

   1. M. Alexey,
      Thanks for your explanations : glad to learn my opinion is -potentially- completely flawed and that I can work on a better understanding of the Covid Case.
      Yes, you are true I cannot list people or organisation really working on understanding the virus, except the IHU méditerranée.

      Regarding the « seasonal virus » :
      Let me explain my point of view about why we don’t know if it is a seasonal virus : A seasonal virus causes seasonal epidemics. The term is a comparison between flu epidemics (relapses in autumn and winter in northern hemisphere). There is currently a drop in Covid-19 incidence in Europe. BUT, we don’t know yet if it is due to confinement measures (humans behaviours) or to the biology of the virus itself (sensibility to UV-light and temperature=> seasonal virus). SO, I we observe a relapse of cases during cold seasons, then the virus would be seasonal.

      So, you are right, let’s invent a new season : I suggest « Winter » as a name.

      The virus appeared in Winter in China but I don’t know if it will come back as a seasonal diseases, this is my point. Obviously USA are currently a hot spot for the Covid-19. But it is likely not a « second wave », rather the continuation of the first time the virus reached USA. I disagree with you when you say the virus has been equally present in winter, spring, summer in the North hemisphere, because there are temporal (and then seasonal) differences. Regarding USA, it illustrates probably the importance of preventive measures and sanitary politics over season (and maybe the fact tons of people have high BMI). Yes, this goes in favour of a non-seasonal disease, maybe it is your point (?). But it does not prove it : more cases still an option even in USA.

      My laptop is fine, thank you.

      Second wave term : YES, it seems we don’t have the same definition ! … « Second wave » seems purely descriptive, i.e. an augmentation of incidence and prevalence after a 0 cases period. How do you define it ?

      « Mathematicians only perform analysis of the medical or other relevant data gathered by medical personnel or biologists » : glad to learn it. But I doubt in the abundance of « relevant data » gathered.

      Conclusion:
      Rather than falsifications and conspiracies (by me, you, medias, mathematicians, infectiologues) I would think there are rather misconceptions. I hope we can demonstrate the possibility of debate between fields for greater understanding. By doing this we would provide an example for the article up above and we would not be completely off topic in this regard.

      Thanks for your reading – glad to have share my thoughts with your strong analytical skills – !
      Respectfully
      Paul

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